Olivia Columbus [00:00:58] We are here today with Grace Stanke, who is currently Miss America and is a very accomplished nuclear engineer. Grace, welcome back to the podcast. 

Grace Stanke [00:01:06] Well, thank you so much. So excited to be back on Titans of Nuclear. I know so many people that listen to it. It's awesome. 

Olivia Columbus [00:01:12] So glad to hear that. You've been on the podcast before and we won't go too deep into the stuff you've already covered, but we just want to quickly have you recap your background and how you got into nuclear. 

Grace Stanke [00:01:23] Yeah, I'm Miss America 2023 right now, so I'm in this position to help advocate for nuclear, right? The unique thing about being Miss America is I'm working with a totally separate demographic from what the nuclear industry typically reaches, which allows for a lot more different conversations to happen in terms of changing public perception. So, that's the main goal of my year as Miss America and advocating. 

Grace Stanke [00:01:44] How I got into nuclear overall... I'm still a student right now. I'm in my last semester of school to graduate. But I got into it out of spite. My dad told me not to go into it. And as a 16-year-old teenage girl, your first instinct when your dad tells you not to do something is to go and do it, and that's what got me into it. 

Grace Stanke [00:01:59] But what I say is, what kept me in it is the fact that I learned that this industry literally has the ability to change the world. It has the ability to cure cancer. It has the ability to create clean, reliable energy for Americans to use and people all over the globe to use. And I just kept learning about it. I'm like, "Why are more people excited about this? Why aren't more people dreaming about nuclear?"

Olivia Columbus [00:02:18] Yeah, absolutely. I think this week here at WNE, we've just constantly heard the concept reiterated of "energy access is so critical." Clean energy, energy security... Those are all important aspects, but really, providing energy for those who don't have it is so critical, and nuclear is the best and most sustainable way to do that. 

Grace Stanke [00:02:37] Exactly, exactly. 

Olivia Columbus [00:02:39] So, when you set out as Miss America, what were some of the goals that you set for yourself in terms of educating folks about nuclear? 

Grace Stanke [00:02:47]  It's so interesting to think back about where I was about 11.5 months ago after becoming Miss America, right? My main goals were really... I set some parameters of what I wanted to achieve as Miss America with wanting to interact with "X" amount of people. I wanted to travel to... I believe I had five different countries. Because I believe that the United States of America is a superpower, right? I think Miss America should have the ability to represent the United States as well, which I've been able to do that. 

Grace Stanke [00:03:12] The United States Department of Energy invited me as the honorary delegate to attend the International Atomic Energy Agency General Conference. Which I was sitting there and I'm like, "Oh my God, what did I get myself into?" But it was so cool because what I've realized that I've been able to achieve this year is to make sure that youth have a voice and young women have a voice at the table. 

Grace Stanke [00:03:32] As I sit in these international conferences and look at who's making the decisions, I realize that the people who are making these decisions aren't going to be around to run the plants when they're fully constructed, right? There's just a certain reality of that. So, it's been really incredible to make sure that young people still are heard, still are valued, and still are being considered in this equation when we're looking forward to years like 2050 and 2060 when we set these carbon goals. 

Olivia Columbus [00:03:55] Absolutely. And I hear you'll be attending the COP conference next week? 

Grace Stanke [00:03:57] Yeah, so I have to go back to the States and then I go back to Dubai. So, I'm like all over the place, but I'll be at COP, yes. 

Olivia Columbus [00:04:03] That's very exciting. And it's so exciting to see nuclear featured at COP this year. I know that's something that hasn't had as much of a voice as it should have in years past, but this year with COP being hosted in the United Arab Emirates, which is a nuclear country, it's so great to see that. 

Olivia Columbus [00:04:20] Think back to the last year. Is there anything that really stands out? Any example of when you sort of shared your story of why nuclear energy is this incredible, incredible tool? Is there something that sticks out to you as a moment where you felt like your impact was really being felt by an individual or a group? 

Grace Stanke [00:04:37] Well, I want to share a story about... Actually, a social media post that I made. Because social media is something anybody can do. And I want to emphasize that for the listeners. This is not something that's specific to me, because I know the listeners can do this too, right? 

Grace Stanke [00:04:50] I made a social media post about cooling towers and about how it's water vapor and it's not radioactive material coming out of the top of that. Which is something that I feel like in the nuclear industry, we're like, "Okay, yep, we've been over this." Well, that video has already gotten over 5 million... I think it's at 5 million views; I'd have to double check. It's like either 4.8 million or 5 million. 

Grace Stanke [00:05:10] And the thing is that there was tons of engagement on the post. The candid discussions that happened in that comment section, the amount of DMs that I got of people saying, "Hey, I'm thinking about going into a career like nuclear now because of this post or because of this series of posts that have been made. Like, thank you." That's something that... A little bit goes a long ways. And that's true in nuclear. We know a little bit of fuel goes a long ways in terms of producing energy, but a little bit of words and a little bit of action can go a long ways in terms of convincing people as well. 

Olivia Columbus [00:05:41] Yeah. And so much of the fear around nuclear comes from misconceptions. 

Grace Stanke [00:05:45] Exactly. 

Olivia Columbus [00:05:46] So, the more that we can correct those misconceptions... I think, obviously there are always going to be people who are emotionally driven against nuclear and it's not always easy to change those emotions, but if you can just change folks' misperceptions and educate them on why nuclear is safe, why the waste isn't scary and put it on the same level playing field as other energy sources I think you can do a lot. 

Grace Stanke [00:06:10] Exactly. And that's something anybody can do, really. That ability to educate... We've got this wonderful, wonderful thing called the internet, right? It is there; it's available. I encourage anybody and everybody to be their own advocate. 

Grace Stanke [00:06:22] I know Thanksgiving happened last week, but I've said it since the beginning of my year. In all honesty, start your family Thanksgiving fight. The conversation of changing these misconceptions starts in your own home; it starts in your own circle. You can be the one neutron that starts the chain reaction, if that makes sense, right? You have that conversation with your aunt and your aunt tells her kids. And then, her kids go to school and tell them about how cool this science is that they learned about from their aunt's niece or nephew or whatever it may be. And that's something that is so cool, is everybody has that ability to do that. 

Olivia Columbus [00:06:52] Yeah. And you shared another point that I think is so important to drive home which is this idea that young people need to be engaging and working in nuclear. That is so critical. I mean, this conference has been a great example. There have been students here the last few days. And to see so many young people just even representing their companies has been really exciting. 

Olivia Columbus [00:07:12] They are the future, we are the future. I mean, you and I are there. And I think we're also seeing a younger generation really starting to get excited about nuclear, and that is what is so inspiring to myself and, I think, to a lot of the folks who I work with and who I know in the space. 

Grace Stanke [00:07:33] Yeah. It was really crazy because talking about this and how young people are excited about nuclear... So, I am so used to battling... Not battling, but talking about Chernobyl, talking about Fukushima, talking about spent fuel, and talking about safety. Those are the four topics that I spend most of my time discussing with the general public. That's where concerns lie. That's where concerns exist, which are all completely valid. That is a completely valid concern to have. For someone outside the industry, those look like scary things. 

Grace Stanke [00:08:00] But it was really crazy because I was giving a presentation to middle schoolers in September and I started talking about Fukushima. And let me tell you, I looked at them and they were looking around at each other like, "This lady's on something right now." And I was like, "Oh my God." It hit me. I'm like, "Do you guys even know what Fukushima Daiichi is?" And they don't. 

Grace Stanke [00:08:19] But this is so important to recognize because this allows for us as the current people in the industry to provide that crucial first impression of what nuclear is. We can talk about the whole picture. We can talk about the goods, the bads. We can talk about what it's like to be an employee in nuclear. As long as we're open and honest about it. That's what we need. That's what those middle schoolers wanted. And we sat and talked about nuclear all day long. I had all these like, fuel pellets that were 3D printed. They went insane for those fuel pellets afterwards. 

Olivia Columbus [00:08:49] That's so interesting. It is a really interesting concept because nuclear is so simple, really. 

Grace Stanke [00:08:54] It is. Boiling water. 

Olivia Columbus [00:08:55] It's something that you should be able to explain to kids. I know we always love to say it's just water passing over a hot rock, right? 

Grace Stanke [00:09:01] Yeah, fancy hot rocks boil water, steam rises, turns a turbine. That's what I use.

Olivia Columbus [00:09:04] Yeah. It should be something that's so simple we can teach the kids, yet it seems so scary and so complicated. And that sort of leads me into my next topic, which is I would really love to talk to you about the impact you specifically feel like you've had on women in nuclear and inspiring young women to become not just nuclear engineers, but work across the nuclear field. I mean, as someone who's not math and science inclined, I think that was really daunting to me. But understanding that there's a role for everyone in this nuclear sector and anyone who's interested in joining it can and should. 

Grace Stanke [00:09:34] Yes. This is something I say a lot in terms of there's a place for everybody here in nuclear. We need technicians, we need engineers, we need managers, we need legal teams. We need literally anybody and everybody on board to make a nuclear power plant run. But when it comes to specifically women... I've had my fair share of sexism. I've had my fair share of bad experiences. That's just the certain reality of it, unfortunately. And I wish change would happen overnight. But the reality is, it won't. However, what I always ask for is...

Grace Stanke [00:10:04] I had an experience this year where someone was offering me a job. And they said, "Grace, we really want you to come work for us. One, because you're a woman." And I went, "Of all of the things you could have said, you chose that to lead with, my biological makeup." And it is so frustrating to me that women are put in this box because we're a nuclear engineer or because we're involved in this industry in some way, shape or form and we're a woman. It's like we're some mythical unicorn. No, we're not. We're human beings. We have so much more to offer. 

Grace Stanke [00:10:32] And that's something that I think I really can represent as Miss America is showing that not only am I a nuclear engineering student, but I'm also Miss America. I'm also a D1 competitive water skier. I'm also a classical violinist. Like, heaven forbid we're humans with personalities and multifaceted hobbies. That's something that I think has been really crucial to this year in terms of highlighting that women just want to be treated like any other human being, right? Not separated, not isolated, not put on a platform either because of our biological makeup. But making sure that we're receiving fair and equal treatment. And in addition, being respected as a human being in a whole picture aspect. 

Olivia Columbus [00:11:09] Absolutely. That's absolutely true. I will say it has been really exciting to see more and more women joining this industry. 

Grace Stanke [00:11:16] Oh my gosh. Every time I see one, I'm like, "Ahh, let's go." 

Olivia Columbus [00:11:20] It's really great to see. And I hope it's a trend that we continue to see and we continue to see it grow, especially young women coming out of school and deciding to pursue nuclear. 

Olivia Columbus [00:11:29] So, let's talk a little bit about your next venture. You'll be joining Constellation fairly soon. What specifically are you going to be doing there? 

Grace Stanke [00:11:40] So, I finish Miss America January 14th of 2024, and then I'll be starting with Constellation in March of 2024. I will be doing a very new role, which I hope other companies follow suit in this, because I think every company could benefit from a role like this. Primarily, I will be a core design engineer. I just got my degree, so I'm doing the engineering; I want to learn. I want to keep learning about this industry. I want to be at outages and help with that process, all of those things. So, that's about 60% of the role. 

Grace Stanke [00:12:07] But the other 40% is continuing the advocacy work that I've been doing as Miss America. We've seen the impacts of many, many advocacy groups and many companies putting efforts forward on programs to help promote nuclear. Now it's time that we start defining roles surrounding "let's build more nuclear." Let's start supporting nuclear on a public, external-facing front. Not just an internal, nuclear-to-nuclear front. We need nuclear-to-external facing fronts. 

Grace Stanke [00:12:34] And I'm really excited because I've already got events set up with colleges and with eighth-grade girls in Alabama and in Oklahoma. And all of these things starting right away in February and in March. 

Olivia Columbus [00:12:44] That's so exciting. And just to wrap it up... We spoke to you a year ago, you're going to continue your advocacy. What do you hope in one year from now you will have achieved in terms of nuclear advocacy? 

Grace Stanke [00:12:58] The one thing is I do want to see the percentage of women in nuclear increase. I want to see that number go from 14% to like 16%. Because like I said, I know that this change won't happen overnight. I know that it will take time. But I would love to see those numbers start to increase. 

Grace Stanke [00:13:13] Additionally, I want to see ground being broken on building new nuclear. We have done a lot of talking. I have done a lot of talking this year. Let me tell you; let me tell you. 210,000 miles of travel, okay? And I'm at the point where we need to start breaking ground. We need to start building that workforce in terms of construction, making sure we've got qualified construction people working on building these nuclear power plants. And then they can, in turn, maybe potentially work at those power plants in the future. So, those are the main things I want to see within the next year to two years, maybe at the next WNE. 

Olivia Columbus [00:13:46] Yes, absolutely. Grace, thank you so much for joining us on Titans. 

Grace Stanke [00:13:49] Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you.

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