Phoebe Lind [00:00:59] Welcome back to another episode of Titans of Nuclear. Today on the podcast, we have our special guest, James Chesnut. He is the Senior Vice President of Nuclear Operations at Day & Zimmermann. I'm Phoebe Lind. Again, welcome. James, how are you? Welcome to the podcast. 

James Chesnut [00:01:17] Hey, I'm doing fine. And thank you for this opportunity. 

Phoebe Lind [00:01:21] Of course. We're excited to have you on today. To jump right into things, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? Where did you grow up? 

James Chesnut [00:01:29] Well, again, I am a second-generation nuclear worker. I grew up on the Chattahoochee River down south in Georgia. Just so had the opportunity to watch this big facility nuclear plant being built, the Farley Nuclear Plant. So, definitely was interested in what was going on over there. 

James Chesnut [00:01:52] Again, like I said, I'm a second-generation nuclear worker following my dad and my two uncles into the construction phase of building a nuclear facility. That was right there near our home. It was pretty interesting because where I grew up was a very agricultural area. And one of the things that you did where I grew up was you either concentrated on farming or you concentrated on working somewhere in the neighborhood supporting farming. And it was the fact that we'd seen this big facility being built near us that was requesting craftsfolk to come and support the construction, and that's how I got involved in the nuclear industry. 

Phoebe Lind [00:02:39] What was your first job? You were one of those craftsfolk, as you say? 

James Chesnut [00:02:43] I was. My first job in the nuclear plant was as a painter. It just so happened that as part of the farming... One of the things that we would do during the during the off-season in farming is that myself, my dad, my brother, and my uncles would help the farmers continue to keep their equipment in good condition. And what that meant was we would apply new paint to them during the non-farming seasons of the year and get them ready for the farming season. So at a young age, I got very familiar with painting equipment. How to sandblast the old paint off, how to do maintenance on the farm equipment, how to apply new paint on the equipment. And I got very good at it. I was probably 13, 14 years old doing the work of adults who were doing the same kind of craft. And so, that gave me a little bit of a head start in the nuclear plant that was being built. 

James Chesnut [00:03:43] Right out of high school, I got the opportunity to follow my dad and follow my two uncles into the construction phase of that. And as one of the youngest workers in the organization, I qualified very quickly as a journeyman painter. For those of you who do not know what a journeyman painter is, that is someone that has the skill and competency at the top of their trade. And of course, I was 18 years old. And because I already had five to six years of experience doing this work, I qualified very quickly. And so, that got me in the opportunity to join a large organization doing construction and watching this big nuclear facility of two units come out of the ground and get ready for generation. 

Phoebe Lind [00:04:32] I'm sure your family members were very proud of you for doing that at such a young age. Did your father and your uncles encourage you to follow their footsteps, or was that a choice you made all on your own? 

James Chesnut [00:04:42] Actually it was encouragement by my dad and and my two uncles. I had no intention of pursuing a college degree. I was always someone that worked with my hands. I've always worked in a vocation of some type. Through high school, I learned how to weld, learned how to be a carpenter, learned how to paint. And those were the things that were being offered through my high school. And so, I was encouraged by my dad and my uncles to come over to the nuclear facility because, as they saw, this was a great opportunity for a good career to develop into. 

Phoebe Lind [00:05:18] So, it was a very economical decision I imagine as well. 

James Chesnut [00:05:23] Yes it was. Yes it was. At 18 years old, making a salary that most adults were making or could not even make was very interesting. My skill set and the fact that I was making the same kind of salary that most adults were making, it continued to influence me to stick with it. 

Phoebe Lind [00:05:50] And then going from being a painter to where you are now as an SVP, did you have an "a-ha moment" where you realized you wanted to work in nuclear energy and make that your career because of the work and the mission itself? Or, was it always focused on the project that you were delivering in your career development? 

James Chesnut [00:06:12] When I started at the Farley Nuclear Plant in Alabama which was right there on the Chattahoochee River... We finished the construction at that particular point... At that time, I was a construction worker and I hadn't really gotten that involved in the operation of a nuclear facility. Didn't know much about it. All I knew was my craft and how my craft could help build something as large as a nuclear facility. And when the construction was complete and the facility went into operation, I had a choice. I could go back into agricultural and farming, or I could follow my career which led me to Kansas, which was one of the last two facilities under construction in the US back in the early '80s. 

James Chesnut [00:06:55] So I followed my career path, moved to Kansas. My family moved to Kansas. My uncles went to Kansas. And we went right back into construction of a facility there in Kansas. And of course, through the years... I was there about 10 years. And of course, continuing to grow up and getting familiar with the area. Met someone from Kansas. Wanted to stay in Kansas. And it was at that point in time that I decided to pursue a career in the operation of the facility. 

James Chesnut [00:07:24] I mean, I knew a lot about the facility. I helped build it. When it went into operation, I was part of the team that was helping to maintain it. I learned a lot about the operation and what it took to make it operate very efficiently, and just got more and more involved with the people who were operating the plant. That's when I decided, "Nuclear energy is something that is very familiar to me. I'm very comfortable with it. I feel safe with it." And so, I just stayed on and went to work for the actual utility company. 

James Chesnut [00:08:01] And it was at that point where I was thinking that, "This facility is... Even though it's a very nice facility, a very small community..." I was looking for more out of my career. And I had several friends who were engineers, project managers, superintendents who were moving to a new opportunity in Arizona. And this was in 1995. My dad had moved to Arizona. One of my uncles had moved to Arizona. And so, I started inquiring about the opportunities there. And it just so happened that they had an opportunity where they were beginning to be evaluated for an INPO 1, or an INPO evaluation. 

James Chesnut [00:08:46] So, the Institute of Nuclear Power Operators... They evaluate each station and they give them a classification of how well they're performing. And this plant was looking to prepare themselves for an excellent report. And because I had just finished working with the facility I was on, helping them get to that same standard of excellence, I got the opportunity to move to Arizona and do the same thing. 

James Chesnut [00:09:10] When I moved there, it took me about six months to get them prepared aesthetically for an INPO evaluation. And once they received their INPO 1 evaluation, which is Excellence & Standards, I continued to stay on there because my background became more around project management, delivering projects, improving the plant. And so, that's really where I felt like my career started to excel, was in the largest nuclear facility in the United States. And I had an opportunity to be a part of its growth and its operation. 

Phoebe Lind [00:09:49] I love that it remained a family affair from Georgia to Kansas to Arizona. You kind of brought your roots with you in that way. And I want to return to one thing that I thought was interesting you mentioned. You felt very safe working at a nuclear power plant. Was that something that you had to explain to people? I mean, obviously, your family members understood that concept. But I mean, in the '80s, that was also the rise of the environmentalist movement and there was a lot of anti-nuclear sentiment there as well. Did you ever have to explain why you loved your work to other people in your community? 

James Chesnut [00:10:24]  You know, I did, because the perception of nuclear in the community... And all that they ever heard was the accidents that have happened in the nuclear industry. You know, Three Mile Island, Chernobyl. And so, I had to explain to them about the amount of safety that goes into not only the construction of the nuclear power plant, but the operation and how they have so many safety barriers that protect the community. And as a young man, I was able to give my own experience around the fact. 

James Chesnut [00:10:55] When I would get into community events and I'd tell them that I worked at a nuclear plant, the most common comment that I would get said, "Well, you don't look like you're shining green just yet." And so, I had to explain to them exactly what that meant in regards to radioactive exposure and let them know of how safe the plants operate in regard to that exposure. And that through a lifetime of working in the facility, I probably had less exposure than most folks in other industries, such as medical, dentistry, and other types of industry that use radiological components as part of their technology. And of course, the fact that I continued to stay very healthy, didn't have any issues. I mean, I was a prime example of, "Wow, if he can work there for several decades, it must be a good place to work." 

Phoebe Lind [00:11:52] So, bring us back up to speed. You were in Arizona. Did you stay in Arizona for the remainder of your career? How did you get from Arizona to where you are now? 

James Chesnut [00:12:04] So in Arizona, I became the site manager for a three-unit facility for my company, which meant that I oversaw all of the maintenance, all of the construction, and all of the refueling every year. And I got the opportunity to learn how to perform along with excellent standards. And as the company started growing through the industry, the opportunity came for me to grow within the company as well and take over more of the fleets in the West. And so, I got an opportunity to move to Texas for a short period and a corporate office. 

James Chesnut [00:12:44] Picked up all of the western fleets and was able to move them into the same kind of operation that I was familiar with, performing their maintenance, performing their construction, and performing their refueling. And it just so happened that I got a chance just to continue to grow my reputation as an individual, as a leader, and as someone that was mentoring others. Just really gave me the opportunity to expand in the company. And as opportunities came within the company to grow, I definitely was very interested in moving more and more into the organization to help move our company into an area of an excellent company for nuclear power, nuclear construction, and nuclear maintenance. 

Phoebe Lind [00:13:30] Okay, so what did your fleet look like? It was the entire western fleet. Were those mostly pressurized water reactors, or what kinds of plants were you working on? 

James Chesnut [00:13:37] So, it was both. It was pressurized water reactor, it was boiling water reactors. Those are the two types of reactors that we have in the United States. As I picked up the West, as others were moving in the company I got a chance to pick up all of the non-union fleet for Day & Zimmermann, which included all of the East Coast plants. It included all the specialties like radiation protection technicians, valve technicians, instrumentation technicians. And so, we started really concentrating on what our delivery was to these facilities to make sure that they were operated in good maintenance, good construction, and refueling. 

Phoebe Lind [00:14:22] So, I know your transition to Day & Zimmermann was a more recent event in the context of your entire career. You went there in January, 2022. Is this still the same work that you're doing today? What are your focuses in 2023, now almost 2024? 

James Chesnut [00:14:39] So, as the company continues to evolve as a nuclear organization, we are setting a standard for... This is the company that we're looking for all of the operating nuclear fleets to come to for their work. And also, we are moving into the opportunities to get involved with new reactor technology. Small modular reactors, advanced reactor technology. So with that, one of the things that I've got the chance to do is just to be on top of that and lead the market. As a market leader for nuclear, one of the things we're concentrating on is, "What does it take to continue to look 10 years, 20 years down the path to see where we need to be as a company to be ready for the next new reactor technology?" 

Phoebe Lind [00:15:37] What technologies are you most excited about? Do you have any projects in the pipeline? 

James Chesnut [00:15:42] We do. We actually have an opportunity to participate in the design and construction and the implementation of a small modular reactor called X-energy; it's the Xe-100. I would like to, as part of my career, be involved in getting one of those small modular reactors in operation and getting people comfortable with that technology. Because once one is built, I believe they'll just start stacking up on top of those and they'll be 10 a year that will be constructed. People will be looking for that kind of technology. 

James Chesnut [00:16:21] With the small modular reactors, what you're looking at is something that's a little more simple in design. It's quicker to get from construction to operation. And you're not looking at these big, large buildings of reactor plants that we have today. 

Phoebe Lind [00:16:38] I will say our listeners are definitely very familiar with SMRs. There's a lot of enthusiasm for exactly the reasons you just stated. The fact that they're safer, can be built faster. Hopefully, it's a little bit faster to get to our first of a kind, and then our "Nth of a kinds" will come out at a more rapid pace. What is your role more specifically with the X-energy project? What services are you providing there? 

James Chesnut [00:17:03] Well, if we could back up just for a moment. An area that I'm really concentrating on now and am concentrating on in a variety of different paths is the nuclear workforce. The nuclear workforce has seen a downward trend in the availability to fill the pipeline of available workers. And a lot of that has to do with... Like, prior to the Inflation Reduction Act, with the sustainability of the operating fleets, the perception of the communities around nuclear, people just were not following that career path. I mean, they were following career paths around newer technologies, health care, tourism. 

James Chesnut [00:17:43] And so, the nuclear pipeline of workers became depleted, so to speak, for everyone that was considered a greengrass worker. Which, those who grew up through the construction of nuclear, the Baby Boomers, those folks started retiring out and a new nuclear workforce was not coming in. So, part of my goal today is to work with the nuclear community through the Nuclear Energy Institute and through communities that are developing trade schools for power plant technology, things like that. We're trying to have some career awareness as well as creating pipelines for people to find their way back into the nuclear industry. 

James Chesnut [00:18:27] Back in the early 2000s, I think it was... The technologies around the world today require people to go out and get four-year college degrees, right? And schools started moving away from things like shop and shop fabrication. And it started influencing high-school students, rather than go into vocational schools, go to four-year degrees. And I think we're trying to overcome that concept now where we are advocating for those who are in high schools that... 

James Chesnut [00:19:08] The kinds of careers that we have to offer are not alternative careers. These are good career-sustaining, good-paying jobs. You can definitely have a lifetime of work, raise a family, live in a community for a long term and basically have a good opportunity to reach retirement being a good craftsman. 

Phoebe Lind [00:19:36] Absolutely. I mean, the success of many of these projects that we talk about all the time... And there are plenty of businesses now that are very excited, from X-energy to ones all over the US and the world... It's critical that we have a workforce that can actually support those projects or else we're not going to see that clean energy coming online anytime soon, especially if we have to wait years and years for people to get trained up on actually how to build and construct these projects. 

Phoebe Lind [00:20:04] That said, what inspired this passion of yours? Was it more from your background and how much joy and success you found from your career starting out as a craftsperson? Or, is it something where you saw a problem in the industry and said, "I can be the person to help solve this?"

James Chesnut [00:20:25] Well, it's a combination of both. Being in the role that I'm in, my responsibility is to bring nuclear workers to the nuclear facility for their refueling outages. We started seeing a significant decline, not only in the pipeline of available workers, but in the skillsets that workers had who were coming to work for us. In other words, they lacked certain components because they just did not get that type of skilled experience through their family, through their community, through their schools. So, that was one thing that got me highly involved with addressing skillset around nuclear workers. 

James Chesnut [00:21:09] The next thing was the training and career awareness. It's like, people did not know that nuclear was starting to grow in regards to helping the US reach its decarbonization goals. People did not realize that nuclear could be a significant part of providing that and providing clean energy. So, career awareness has been a big piece of my work, especially with the Nuclear Energy Institute and some of the things that we're trying to do to advocate for not only nuclear, but nuclear careers. 

Phoebe Lind [00:21:48] So, what do you think some of the winning strategies will be to encourage new people to join the nuclear workforce? Have you started implementing any of those strategies yet? 

James Chesnut [00:21:59] Yes, we've been highly engaged with educational institutions around where we're located, around nuclear plants where we are doing work. I'm involved specifically in one in Arizona, where we work directly with high-school students and the parents to let them know there's a very large clean energy nuclear facility right here that their graduating class could have opportunities to go to work at, learn a good career, learn a good craft, and not even have to leave the state of Arizona for a good job. 

James Chesnut [00:22:40] A couple of things that we are doing is trying to find ways to help people get into nuclear quicker by addressing training, training qualifications. When I was growing up through the nuclear industry, it took three years to go from an unskilled worker to a skilled worker. And with today's ability to have quicker access to information, more technology around the tools that we use... You know, three years... Kids today, after a year, they want to know that they have achieved their goal and they're looking for their next goal. I mean, we just have to find ways to get people more qualified, quicker, and get them more competent in the work that they're doing. 

Phoebe Lind [00:23:27] Yeah, I can absolutely see how, especially younger, generations would be more interested in nuclear from a climate perspective, especially. That was my background. I was interested in climate change and clean energy, more broadly, and that's how I came to nuclear. What kinds of responses are you seeing from these programs that you have with educational institutions, like these high-school students who... I had no idea that I would be working in the nuclear industry now when I was 14 years old. 

James Chesnut [00:23:56] Well, that's just it. As we're starting to engage these facilities and advertise for these types of careers, that's one of the responses that we're seeing, especially from the parents. Because they did not know these type of careers were available to them or to their kids. Otherwise, they probably would have been advocating more for that. Because most of the kids these days... And I've raised several kids myself. Not only my own two boys, but several others. And and if I had not been able to give them information, they would never know that there was an opportunity that existed there. Most of the kids these days, their environment's around tourism. It's around technologies, around gaming. It's around industry and health care. That's exactly what they see. It's manufacturing, it's retail. And I just see this in my community. 

James Chesnut [00:24:56] With me being able to talk to them about the availability of energy-type careers. You know, working as a carpenter, learning how to be a welder, learning how to be a painter, learning how to be an insulator... Things that do not require four-year degrees to be able to be very skilled and skilled quickly. That's exactly what they're looking for, "How can I get a job out of high school and be able to start living a life that I want to see for myself?"

Phoebe Lind [00:25:29] Do you think your boys will also follow in your footsteps and continue on the family tradition of working in nuclear? 

James Chesnut [00:25:36] Well, it just so happens that... I have two sons of my own, and both of them pursued nuclear careers. With my knowledge of the career paths for them, I was able to help them get through it a lot quicker. I did have the opportunity to raise three other boys who had come to our family for a variety of reasons. All three of those boys right now have nuclear careers as well, as well as others who they're friends with. I mean, the word gets out that they're working at this big nuclear plant, and then the friends go, "How do I get involved with that?" "Well, you know, you give James a call. He can help you."

Phoebe Lind [00:26:20] It sounds like you were extremely persuasive, then. It sounds like you're the perfect advocate for continuing to grow the workforce. When you were going through your career, you could show people that nuclear was safe through your own experiences. And now with this new passion of yours, you can show just how successful you could be in nuclear and say, "Don't just look at me. Look at all these other people I've influenced." That's fantastic evidence right there. 

James Chesnut [00:26:47] Absolutely. 

Phoebe Lind [00:26:49] But also looking to the future, there's been a lot of really great news coming out of COP 28. We had a couple of members of our team who were there. One thing that I was really excited to see were these new commitments to scaling up nuclear energy. Which again, workforce will have a major impact if we can actually achieve that. The US was one of a number of countries that pledged to triple nuclear capacity by 2050. What impact do you think these commitments in COP 28 will have on the nuclear industry? 

James Chesnut [00:27:29] I've read some of that around the commitments that they're looking for. They're looking for for countries to get engaged around clean energy, correct? That commitment means that they're advocating for clean energy. They're advocating for the ability to generate energy clean. So, that commitment means a lot of things. It means working together as organizations to help push through any type of regulation to get nuclear more advanced and get it out there faster. 

James Chesnut [00:28:04] I think with the US Department of Energy driving toward... Especially in the US, driving more toward net zero greenhouse emissions, I think that's going to help the US start looking at their position around how they generate their power. And if you think about generation of power, that also follows along with energy security. And where would we be as country in the area of security if we did not have good, clean energy supporting us? 

Phoebe Lind [00:28:39] Absolutely. And I think we see that argument come up more often, too, especially looking in the context of these international conferences. While climate change is certainly a priority for many governments around the world, they have other commitments they also need to balance, such as their national security, their energy security, and how their energy ultimately props up their economy at the end of the day. 

Phoebe Lind [00:29:02] Do you think there are any changes that the nuclear industry needs to make in order to meet some of these commitments and continue to support our economy in the way that it has over the last couple of decades? A lot of people don't know that nuclear energy provides so much of the clean energy that we get every day in the US. 

James Chesnut [00:29:27] Well, I think that part of it is that there needs to be more campaigning around nuclear when it comes to talking around clean energy and advocating for the younger generation, especially when they're getting more environmentally conscious around what life looks like for them, 10, 20, 30 years from now. Everyone needs to concentrate on the fact that nuclear energy is clean,it's sustainable energy, and it's secure energy. And I think that's one of the things that Day & Zimmermann has an opportunity to do is to get really involved, especially when it comes to messaging and branding around our nuclear craft careers and what we're doing to help support the nuclear industry. 

James Chesnut [00:30:20] So, if there was a young person who was interested in a nuclear career, what advice would you have for them? 

James Chesnut [00:30:27] My messaging to the people who I talk to today is that nuclear energy is here for the long term. There are great careers that come from supporting nuclear construction, nuclear technologies, nuclear operations, being able to be part of something that is bringing energy security to your communities and to the nation. The messaging that I would give is that these careers, they're easier to get into. They don't require a four-year degree. You can find almost any place in the United States that you want to live, depending on what you're interested to hobby-wise, whether it's surfing on the East Coast or rock climbing in the mountains. You can find a nuclear facility somewhere near those areas that can support not only a good life with your family, but also provide you in an area where you can support raising a family. 

Phoebe Lind [00:31:38] Okay, let's say I'm convinced. I'm a senior in high school and I'm about to graduate this coming spring and I really want a career in nuclear energy. I'm going to move to San Diego because I love to surf. What would you say to that student? What would you say to me, in this case? What are the first steps I need to do to go get that career or where can I learn more? Where could I begin to actually pursue that career that I'm now convinced I want? 

James Chesnut [00:32:09] Well, there are a lot of career opportunities advertised through the utilities that support the states, that support the local areas and local regions. My first thought would be to get online and research the types of careers that are available for you. I mean, nothing says you have to be a craftsperson to work in a nuclear facility. If you want to be a designer, you want to work in IT, you want to work in warehousing, you want to work in operations... There are more careers around a nuclear facility than just working with your hands and working as a craftsperson. 

James Chesnut [00:32:50] At the end of the day, you can actually see that you've done something with your day that made a positive impact for the facility that you're working in. So, for those folks who are applying for those jobs, it's more about understanding what you want to do as a person. Whether you want to work at the facility, whether you want to work in a particular area, just look and do the research. 

Phoebe Lind [00:33:24] Okay, thank you. That's great advice. Now, I can go out and pursue that career. As we start to wrap up here, we like to give our guests an opportunity to end with a final thought or a final message that you want to share with our listeners. What would your final thoughts be? 

James Chesnut [00:33:43] My final thoughts are going to be nuclear is here to stay. We have a lot of opportunity in continuing to maintain the safety and the security of our nation by continuing to help grow our energy sector. And nuclear happens to be a very large portion of that. It is safe energy production. It provides communities with a lot of support. It doesn't require, necessarily, spending four years in college to get an opportunity to have a great career, a great, sustainable career. It provides a good life. Easy to start raising a family, building your own home, and getting started in your community. 

Phoebe Lind [00:34:41] Nuclear, absolutely, is here to stay. I'm certain that will resonate with our listeners. Thank you again so much for your time on Titans of Nuclear today. I hope you enjoyed your interview. Thank you again. 

James Chesnut [00:34:55] Okay, thank you.

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