Olivia Columbus [00:00:58] We are here today with Princess Mthombeni, who is the founder of Africa for Nuclear. Princess, welcome so much, finally, to Titans of Nuclear. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:01:07] Thank you so much, Olivia. Hello, everyone. 

Olivia Columbus [00:01:10] We're really excited to have you here today. And to kick it off, we want to learn a little bit about you and how you got into the nuclear space. Can you tell us a little bit about your story and what initially brought you to nuclear and why you stayed? 

Princess Mthombeni [00:01:23] Definitely I can. I have such an interesting story. I work as a nuclear communicator. I'm a nuclear communication specialist for one of the nuclear organizations in South Africa. But I'm also a founder of Africa for Nuclear, which is an advocacy campaign that promotes nuclear as a key contributor to achieving Africa's agenda for sustainable development. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:01:46] How I got into the nuclear industry? It was by mistake because I was out of a job and I was looking for a job. I was very young, and I got a call from a recruiter saying, "You have to go for an interview at this organization." I didn't even know the name of the organization at that time. Then I traveled about 100 km to get to that organization and I first went to the wrong place. And then, when I called the recruiter, I was told, "No, you are still 30 kms away before you get here."

Princess Mthombeni [00:02:21] And then, I got there. The interview was at 10:00. I got there at 2 p.m. I'm tired, I'm hungry, I'm exhausted. I'm like, "I don't even know what's happening here. This doesn't even look like a legit company." And then, there's security clearance access that I had to go through. And I'm like, "You know what? Let me just do this interview and go back home and never come back here." Then I get in, I do an interview, and I get a call next week saying, "Come back and work." And the rest is history. 

Olivia Columbus [00:02:52] And where did you end up working? 

Princess Mthombeni [00:02:54] I ended up in that organization. 

Olivia Columbus [00:02:56] Oh, okay. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:02:57] And I'm still there even now because you know when something is a calling for you. 

Olivia Columbus [00:03:02] Yes, yes. So, you were totally unfamiliar with nuclear at that point?

Princess Mthombeni [00:03:07] Never heard of it. 

Olivia Columbus [00:03:08] You never heard of it. And what was it about nuclear that really, once you started working there, got you hooked, that made you want to start an organization like Africa for Nuclear? 

Princess Mthombeni [00:03:18] I realize that there's so much that as Africans we deprived of, information particularly. Especially things that matter to us, things that would change our economy. Because nuclear is one of those things that is really beneficial to the spinup of the economy. And I said to myself, "I will shoulder the responsibility of going out there and educating people about this technology so that they make informed decisions." Because it's one of the best technologies that Africa needs, especially a continent that suffers from energy poverty. 

Olivia Columbus [00:03:59] Absolutely, absolutely. And South Africa is the only nuclear nation on the African continent right now, correct? And I know a lot of great nuclear engineers have been educating themselves in South Africa but then they've been leaving for jobs in other countries. So, the more that you can develop more nuclear in South Africa and really create a nuclear culture there like there is in a country like France, I'm sure the better for the longevity of the nuclear program there. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:04:28] For me, it's a sad story because we have South Africans spread all over the world building other countries' economies when their economy is getting destroyed. And I do wish that they can come back home. But the only way for them to come back home is this decision to build nuclear power plants at home so that they come and build in their own country. 

Olivia Columbus [00:04:51] Yeah. And what are the current plans to develop new nuclear in South Africa? Is there anything currently underway? 

Princess Mthombeni [00:04:56] There's definitely... There is something on the way. Number one, we have a policy which is due for review. And that policy promotes energy mix which includes nuclear, particularly 2,500 MW of nuclear capacity. In the implementation of that policy, the government has issued out the request for information. And they are in the process of issuing out the request for proposals where they invite bidders to come and pitch. 

Olivia Columbus [00:05:26] Interesting, interesting. One of the interesting things about nuclear is that given its carbon-free baseload capabilities, it is not only an energy source for grid scale applications, but it's really great for certain industrial applications that can provide resources like desalination, which I know is also a huge concern in South Africa. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:05:46] It is. We are a water-scarce country. And at some point, Cuba helped us to basically desalinate the sea water. And also, South Africa is among the top four purchasers of new ore in its context of nuclear medicine, globally. 

Olivia Columbus [00:06:03] Wow, that's fascinating. And are there any SMRs that are currently looking at developing in South Africa or have made public announcements in South Africa that you're aware of?

Princess Mthombeni [00:06:12] Yes. You know, I always say the story of SMRs started in South Africa with Pebble Bed Modular Reactor. 

Olivia Columbus [00:06:18] Yes, of course! 

Princess Mthombeni [00:06:19] Yes, which was put under current maintenance in 2010. So now, every country has an SMR except South Africa, which is a sad situation. But we do hope that soon we are also going to have our own SMR technology. But yeah, SMRs are one of the technologies that we are advocating for because you know that we are mostly powered by coal. 

Olivia Columbus [00:06:41] Right. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:06:42] Yeah, so some of those coal power plants are aging and they need to be repurposed. And for me, the best solution is nuclear. 

Olivia Columbus [00:06:52] Absolutely. So, tell us a little bit about Africa for Nuclear and what you're trying to achieve and how you started it. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:06:57] It started as a campaign when I just wanted to advocate for nuclear problems on the African continent, obviously looking into different stakeholders. But the main stakeholders were policymakers, the government people, because we need a political role. And once we have that political role, I believe we can achieve just about anything. But also, we need to advocate members of the public to join into the fight, fighting for nuclear problems on the African continent. So, that's how it started. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:07:28] And then, it grew into a nonprofit organization. Now, what we have achieved as Africa for Nuclear is that it's recognized globally. I mean, it's known. Many people know Princy from Africa for Nuclear. Even the government at home, they're getting familiar with Africa for Nuclear. And I think that's basically what I want. But for me, if I say Africa for Nuclear has achieved something it will be the day when I see the first concrete being poured for a nuclear power plant anywhere else in Africa. 

Olivia Columbus [00:08:08] Yeah, so you guys don't just focus on South Africa. You're looking at any African country that is interested in building nuclear. And where are you seeing a lot of interest right now? 

Princess Mthombeni [00:08:18] I'm seeing a lot of interest in Ghana. 

Olivia Columbus [00:08:19] Interesting. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:08:21] Ghana is pushing. And I think Ghana will have an SMR before anyone else in Africa. 

Olivia Columbus [00:08:27] That's fascinating. How long ago did you launch this campaign, initially? 

Princess Mthombeni [00:08:33] Since 2021, so it's kind of new. 

Olivia Columbus [00:08:37] Okay, great. Yes, so there are lots of opportunities still. Well, that's really interesting. And I know there's also interest in Nigeria and in some of the North African countries as well. I know Egypt has a lot of interest. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:08:48] Egypt is building. Oh, yes. Thank you for mentioning this. Egypt is currently constructing a nuclear power plant. 

Olivia Columbus [00:08:54] Wow, that's very exciting. That'll be great. And yeah, I mean, providing that energy security is so critical and nuclear is such a valuable resource. Also, I believe a lot of uranium is mined in African countries already, right? Is that correct? 

Princess Mthombeni [00:09:11] It is mined in them. I know about uranium, yes. 

Olivia Columbus [00:09:14] That's a nice story of bringing the resources back to the places that they're coming from. Well, that's fascinating. So, why are you here at WNE? What is your role here today? 

Princess Mthombeni [00:09:25] Firstly, I have to say it's my first time here and I'm loving it. I'm here because I was invited by the organizers to come and chair a panel session on advancing nuclear through sustainable territorial and sustainable development as well as digitalization. 

Olivia Columbus [00:09:40] That's very exciting. And have you had any sort of very critical meetings or conversations here? What has your experience been? Do you feel like this is a really valuable conference to attend? 

Princess Mthombeni [00:09:52] I think it is especially for businesses and people, countries that want to build and want to meet this and to see how these different technologies work, and I think it's best for them. And for me, I think it's best to see how these mockup models are built. I also try to help African countries to have this mockups so that they go to the public and educate the public because seeing is believing. If I take a mockup of a reactor and show people how it works, they'll start believing. I haven't been here before, but from what I heard is that it's good this year. Because even students are coming from the first day where as previously, they only came on the last day. And I'm so happy that tomorrow I'm addressing students. I can't wait. 

Olivia Columbus [00:10:41] Yes. Yes, absolutely. This is my second time here. It's definitely bigger this year, way more people. It's really great to see all these folks from the nuclear industry come out especially given the COP meetings next week. I know there was some concern, maybe, that people wouldn't be able to make it, but it seems like that hasn't really stopped very many people. So, that's really exciting.

Princess Mthombeni [00:11:03] It is. I was saying, "There's so many people here." It's fascinating. And to think that all of us tomorrow... I'm flying to COP tomorrow evening. 

Olivia Columbus [00:11:12] Oh, great. Great.

Princess Mthombeni [00:11:12]  There's so many people. 

Olivia Columbus [00:11:13] I know, it's sort of "everyone's traveling together," almost. So, what are you going to be doing at COP?

Princess Mthombeni [00:11:19] I'm going to be making nuclear part of the script. Because we know it's a scripted event, but yeah, I just want nuclear as part of the script. And it has worked before because we managed to get nuclear in the green taxonomy of Europe. So, I hope we achieve something at this COP as well. 

Olivia Columbus [00:11:36] Yeah. And so exciting that nuclear is such a big part of COP this year. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:11:40] It is. I can't wait for the pledge, the American pledge. 

Olivia Columbus [00:11:43] Yes, yes. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:11:44]  We hope to be unveiled. 

Olivia Columbus [00:11:44] Yes, I know our team is heavily involved and is working on some things there. They're excited to be attending and excited to be seeing all the other folks from the nuclear industry who we get to talk to every day. It's been great to see how the government of the UAE has been so supportive. Obviously, they have an incredibly successful nuclear program. They're really such a great example of building a program from scratch and how you can do that. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:12:09] And finish it on time. 

Olivia Columbus [00:12:10] Finish it on time, on budget. We've done some great podcast episodes with them about that. So, I highly encourage everyone to go listen listen to those. I'm very excited to hear that you're going to be in Dubai as well. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:12:22] Thank you. 

Olivia Columbus [00:12:24] So as we wrap up here, I want to give you the opportunity to share your thoughts on your vision for the future of nuclear, both in South Africa, on the African continent, but also globally. Where do you hope we can take this technology? What do you hope we can achieve from it? 

Princess Mthombeni [00:12:41] First, my vision for Africa is that at least let us try and and focus on addressing the energy poverty. And let us make nuclear a part of the energy mix. By saying part of the energy mix, I'm saying let's consider all technologies that have worked in developed nations because we cannot reinvent it all, but we can think of things that have not worked somewhere else. So, let's think of things that have worked in developed nations. And nuclear has worked. Yes. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:13:11] And globally... I mean, they are speaking about net zero carbon emissions by 2050. And how else are you going to achieve that without including nuclear as part of the energy mix? That's just my vision to say, "Let's work towards the target of net zero carbon emissions by 2050."

Olivia Columbus [00:13:30] Absolutely. Well, Princess, it was such a pleasure having you on. You are our most requested guest today. We had several people come over and ask us when you were coming, so I'm so glad we made it happen. Thank you so much for joining us on Titans of Nuclear. 

Princess Mthombeni [00:13:41] Thank you, Titans of Nuclear. This is long overdue, by the way. 

Olivia Columbus [00:13:44] Yes, absolutely. Glad we got it done. 

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