TITANS OF NUCLEAR

Qa1 06:00 - Renewables Alone Cannot Stop Climate Change

Bret Kugelmass: What have you found when you compare various energy sources as it relates to material consumption and productivity?

Mathijs Beckers: Mathijs Beckers is the author of Climate Zero Hour. Public perception, in general, is that climate change can be stopped with 100% renewable energy, and Beckers originally believed this as well. Beckers also brings to light the scale of coal mining across the globe, as just one surface mine pit in Germany is large enough and deep enough to fit all of Manhattan. Beckers became interested in climate change, originally focused on solar power and other renewables. He discovered, based on calculations, that renewable energy alone could not support the demand on the grid, now or in future projections. Beckers reached out to experts across the globe to validate his assumptions in these calculations.

Qa2 12:58 - Material Production Required for Energy Generation

Bret Kugelmass: Why was it important to start writing a book on climate change?

Mathijs Beckers: Mathijs Beckers is the author of multiple books focused on energy, with the latest being Climate Zero Hour. Beckers battled chronic depression for many years and struggled to find meaning for himself in his work. His first book, Highway to Dystopia, reflects his state of mind at the time by trying to find a positive future, but eventually choosing a negative outlook on the world we live in. Beckers is also the author of Science a la Carte and The Non-Solutions Project. He aims to put the scope of the energy problem in perspective for the general public. One example calculation Beckers breaks down is the material production required for different energy sources, such as the amount of copper required for solar panels and how the economics may affect production.

Qa3 21:00 - Growth of Global Energy Consumption

Bret Kugelmass: What other topics do you focus on in your energy-related books?

Mathijs Beckers: One of Mathijs Beckers’ primary concerns is the disparity between the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) energy consumption and non-OECD consumption. The OECD is comprised of North America, Europe, Japan, and a few other smaller countries, totaling approximately 1.5 billion people. The per capita consumption of the OECD is about five to six times as much as those living in non-OECD countries, which is about 6 billion people, with an estimated two to three billion more people to be added to the non-OECD population. In order to bring fresh water, food, and shelter to these people, energy production needs to be greatly increased. Energy consumption is not just electricity consumption, but it is also the consumption of products that use energy to be made. Beckers created models analyzing the effects of increased energy per capita in OECD and non-OECD countries. The minimum energy per capita value Beckers uses assumes basic subsistence needs are met and that poverty is not increasing.

Qa4 29:24 - Investing in the Nuclear Learning Curve

Bret Kugelmass: What solutions are left to provide the energy required for the future to bring the world out of energy poverty and stop climate change?

Mathijs Beckers: Mathijs Beckers advocates for nuclear energy as the best source of energy and the source needed to bring the world out of energy poverty and stop climate change. However, he recognizes that not enough is being done with nuclear energy at this time. The EPR (European Pressurized Reactor) has never been built, even though it has been in the design phase for many years; it is a first of a kind (FOAK) plan. AP-1000 is another first of a kind reactor design. During construction, builders and designers discover than many things were not accounted for, causing extreme cost increases. In the 1970’s and 1980’s, over 100 reactors were under construction each year. The first of a kind reactors are facing challenges during the building phase. The industry must accept that the first of a kind projects may not deliver initially, but provide invaluable experience and lessons for future builds. The learning curve only kicks off when more reactors are built. This process must be sped up and see committed funding to be successful.

Qa5 36:28 - Only Twenty Years Left in the Carbon Budget

Bret Kugelmass: How do first of a kind reactors differ from the existing nuclear plants?

Mathijs Beckers: Most of the nuclear technology is the same throughout different plant designs, but Mathijs Beckers considers passive safety features the biggest difference, which allows the plant to operate safely with minimal operator or engineer intervention, such as a in Generation III+ reactors Generation IV reactors, such as molten salt or gas-cooled pebble-bed reactors, have a negative void coefficient. When normal operation stops, the reactivity goes down and the reactor wants to shut itself off. In order to maintain 1½ to 2 degrees warming, without going above, there is a carbon allowance of about 800 gigatons of carbon. The world population is emitting approximately 35 gigatons of carbon per year, leaving twenty years left in the carbon budget. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) says that, in order to stay under RCP 2.6, a radiative forcing put on the Earth on top of what it normally has, negative emissions are required. In order to accomplish this, carbon must sucked out of the air, which will also require energy. An abundant and cheap enough energy source is needed to achieve this, providing opportunity for nuclear energy.

Qa6 42:40 - Nuclear Energy as a Cornerstone for the Electrical Grid

Bret Kugelmass: Is this bar for climate change achievable with the right technology?

Mathijs Beckers: With the right technology and the right mindset, stopping climate change might be possible. As with the Apollo project, the U.S. committed to having no obstructions to building the rockets, developing the infrastructure, and getting funding. Practically all the technology needed to solve this issue already exist, with room for innovation. Mass production of reactor pressure vessels or cold rolled stainless steel for molten salt reactors may be advanced processes that allow nuclear to succeed. Given the socioeconomic circumstances that we live in, politically, culturally, and economically, the time it takes to get to these solutions is much longer than the time we have to respond to the calamity. Mathijs Beckers believes in nuclear as the cornerstone of the electrical grid with support from solar and wind power. In order for solar power to take over the grid, billions of panels will need to be built and plans put in place for maintaining and recycling. All the recoverable uranium and thorium we have today will fit inside the Empire State Building in New York, which could provide power for the plant for generations. There is also approximately 4 billion tons of uranium in seawater, which replenishes itself regularly. Nuclear power uses the least amount of materials to produce and the material needed is readily available.

Qa1 00:20

Q: Where are you from?

A: Wade Karlsen grew up in Washington State and received his degree in metallurgy from the University of Washington. Metallurgy is the study of how metals work and how they achieve performance criteria, such as steel. Steel is a general term used to describe materials based on iron, but different combinations of material create various metals with different properties for different uses. For example, carbon mixed with iron produces carbon steel, which is common in construction, and chromium is added for corrosion resistance and added with nickel to create stainless steel. At the molecular level, the main iron lattice, called a crystal lattice, and atoms either sit at the same place that an iron atom is, as chromium does, or between the iron atoms, as carbon does. When materials undergo nuclear radiation, atoms are pushed out of the lattice, changing the mechanical properties of the material itself. After finishing his doctorate degree in Oregon, Wade Karlsen took a job in Finland in 1997 and now studies the effects of neutron radiation on materials at the VTT technical research center of Finland.

Qa2 05:53

Q: What initial conversations led you to connect your degree with the nuclear industry?

A: Wade Karlsen met a professor from Finland at a materials conference in Chicago, who had a career in materials with applications in the nuclear industry. Initial conversations connecting the two centered around non-nuclear topics, such as powder metallurgy. Powder metallurgy is a special process in which a powdered form is created by atomization of melted metal, then is compacted through hot isostatic pressing and consolidated into a solid material. The aim of this process is to take material that is difficult to forge, such as those with a high percentage of alloy material, and put it through hot isostatic pressing in order to give properties similar to forging. The limiting factor in space travel and nuclear reactors is usually material capabilities and performance, which is usually limited by how they can be shaped into something useful. There will always be a need for developing better materials.

Qa3 09:55

Q: Are there other processes that are used to shape or form these materials that were previously difficult to manipulate?

A: Wade Karlsen sees two hot topics in the nuclear industry as it relates to materials, the first being powder metallurgy and the second being 3D printing. In 3D printing, lasers draw on the powdered metal in different layers as materials are fused together. Materials used in 3D printing are determined based on heat and mixtures, which tend to be proprietary to the 3D printing companies. One additive used is phosphorus, which reduces the melting temperature, but can cause embrittlement in the metal. Companies are working to develop better high-powered lasers used for laser welding and 3D printing. After moving to Finland, Wade Karlsen completed some post-doc work at Aalto University with Hannu Hänninen, the professor he met in the U.S. who had previously led a team on materials for nuclear power plants at VTT. Karlsen joined that same team at VTT, went on to lead the group and now leads the Center for Nuclear Safety at VTT. The nuclear materials team focuses on stress corrosion cracking and neutron radiation.

Qa4 16:52

Q: How did you rise through positions of leadership with a language handicap?

A: Wade Karlsen learned Finnish after he moved to the country, mostly through conversation, and was able to rise through positions of leadership due to his natural drive to pursue challenges and his ability to communicate in English had the benefit of influence at the international level. The Center for Nuclear Safety is a green space laboratory, meaning the lab was built on land that was previously forested. The old facilities on campus at Aalto University are undergoing decommissioning. The Center covers two main areas of expertise: support of operating power plants, and radiochemistry and support of final waste repository questions. VTT has been developing technology and completing tests for radiochemistry engineering solutions. Some studies include geological conditions, backfill materials, and capsule materials and how they undergo compression and how different amounts of water affect the properties. Bentonite clay is used as a barrier layer around capsules to protect them from water intrusion. For operating plants, the main mandate of the Center is to act as the “doctors” for the nuclear power plant by verifying materials are functioning properly to prevent failures and safety incidents.

Qa5 22:37

Q: Does the conversation about capture of radionuclides ever come up, as opposed to just fuel degradation?

A: Wade Karlsen’s Center for Nuclear Safety at VTT focuses on the four barriers of a nuclear power plant: fuel pellet, cladding, primary circuit, and reactor containment. The fuel pellet is a ceramic matrix that contains the uranium and fission products. The cladding contains the fission gasses. The primary circuit, which is the main concern of the materials safety group, is where the fuel sits inside the reactor pressure vessel where the water is and includes the piping system that transport steam and water. The reactor containment is the concrete building over the reactor primary circuit. This represents four levels of protection if there were to be a failure in the system. One laboratory at VTT regularly tests the exhaust stacks of the power plants and uses radioactive iodine, due to its short half-life, to capture fission gasses.

Qa6 26:44

Q: At what form does iodine exist at room temperature?

A: The most important activity Karlsen’s Center for Nuclear Safety group performs is testing reactor pressure vessel steel. Iodine exists in liquid form at room temperature. If there was to be an accidental release of a large amount of iodine, it would take a few days to decay. Iodine is a fission gas, so in an accident scenario, it would have to escape the cladding, primary circuit, reactor containment, and exhaust filter to make it outside the plant into the environment. The exhaust filter uses resins, which is a reactive polymer, that absorbs the iodine gas. The iodine can then decay from the resins and be released as normal, non-radioactive iodine. Neutron irradiation causes embrittlement of the reactor vessel over time, which is made out of carbon steel with a stainless steel cladding. Neutrons knock atoms out of place and distort the lattice structure of the steel, which reduces the ductility of the material.

Qa7 30:56

Q: Is your work primarily focused on understanding the behavior of the existing steel alloy used in nuclear plants, or is it more focused on designing new materials that have a better resistance to embrittlement?

A: Wade Karlsen’s work focuses primarily on understanding the behavior of existing steel alloys used in nuclear plants, but also participate in projects that look at effects of different alloying elements to see if materials can be improved. Nuclear plants are reluctant to experiment with new materials since they are so many other variables and some steel alloys have proven effective. Karlsen performs mechanical testing and metalurgraphic examinations to show what properties are present and specimens are tested on a regular basis to determine confidence in the infrastructure. Stress corrosion cracking results as a combination of the materials, loading scenario, and environment that emerges when something happens that was not foreseen, such as a change in the chemical environment that has an accelerating effect, residual stresses in the material, or some fatigue loading that was not accounted for. This cracking cannot be captured in a finite element model, but failure analyses are conducted to identify the areas of cracking. To improve performance, water chemistry might be altered or stress relief may be needed on the surface.

Global Natural Resources
What is your personal story and how did you get involved in the nuclear space?

Rauli Partanen originally entered the information technology industry and became interested in natural resources and how the modern world relies upon a growing flow of resources, especially oil. Peak oil is often represented as a concept that the world will run out of oil, but peak oil actually represents a plateauing of oil production, which would not be able to support global growth. Partanen started a blog focused on energy and was interested in how businesses and governments recognize and manage demand and production. New technologies such as oil extraction from shale and the tar sands postponed what was thought to be imminent peak oil. In 2013, Rauli Partanen published a book called Finland After Oil, which was nominated for best non-fiction book on both Finnish lists. After receiving new grants, Partanen connected with Janne Korhonen and the two later wrote a book called Climate Gamble which started as debunking arguments against nuclear energy.

Promoting Nuclear Energy to Anti-Nuclear People
Were the publishers afraid that your books on nuclear wouldn’t sell because they weren’t anti-nuclear?

When Rauli Partanen found the first publisher for Finland After Oil, the editor who reviewed the book was vehemently anti-nuclear, but Partanen’s book completely changed her view on nuclear. Looking forward to the Finnish parliamentary elections, Partanen created a shorter book which became Climate Gamble. Partanen and Korhonen crowdfunded a trip to Paris, for which they printed out 5,000 copies of Climate Gamble and handed them out to people around the global climate negotiations conference in Paris. Partanen aimed to get nuclear energy on the agenda, which had previously been largely ignored in climate reduction conversations. Climate Gamble has since been translated in multiple different languages and created into an audiobook. The subtitle for Climate Gamble asks the question, “Is Anti-Nuclear Activism Endangering our Future?” A lot of anti-nuclear activism is based on misconceptions or misinformation. Partanen measured his arguments against three metrics: is there data to support, is the argument logically coherent, and how can it compare to other energy systems.

Marketing and Communication of Nuclear Energy
How has the nuclear community struggled to make comparisons between dangers of other energy options that resonate with people?

Rauli Partanen puts some responsibility for the struggle of the nuclear community on anti-nuclear activists, but also puts responsibility on the nuclear community itself. The only thing the nuclear industry has communicated about its product is its increased safety, which actually creates more fear in the public, since it projects concerns with how things have been done up to that point. By adding safety features for minimal benefit at a high cost, the nuclear industry suffers. The most dangerous nuclear power plant is the one that is not built, because of the cost and time additions. The nuclear industry hasn’t put in comparable resources into marketing and communicating its product. Rauli Partanen works with industry communicators to identify what hasn’t worked in the past and how to strategically reach an audience.

New Methods of Nuclear Communication
How is the nuclear industry changing over the last year regarding communication?

Rauli Partanen sees hope in new nuclear vendors and reactor developers which do not have the baggage of 40 years of tradition as the legacy industry does. This new generation does not sell their product with safety, but will answer safety questions if they arise. In contrast, the traditional nuclear industry’s main communication point is safety, which does not reflect the product. Advocates for nuclear energy often push the nuclear industry to promote the benefits of nuclear, which is sometimes challenging for an industry that is set in its way. Heat production is also a large portion of carbon emissions, and Partanen has also talked with companies about utilizing nuclear energy for this application and also completed a study of the Helsinki metropolitan area in regards to execution of this technology.

Bringing Nuclear to Climate Change Politics
Have you seen your movement have an effect on politicians demanding a public conversation of how nuclear energy fits into the portfolio?

Rauli Partanen’s movement has had an effect on politicians demanding a public conversation of how nuclear energy fits into the portfolio. If there are not evidence-based discussions about the pros or cons of energy options, the world will never know what the technology could do for climate change. The Helsinki municipal government wrote an initiative to look at possibilities of having nuclear energy involved in district heating, which is a system of water pipes that transports heat, via hot water, produced at power plants to consumers for the purpose of heating. Current district heating in Finland is efficient, but is still based on burning fuels, creating high carbon emissions. The coal plants in Finland participate in emissions trading, meaning that it will eventually phase out, but new government laws require coal to be banned by 2029. However, biofuels, which would replace coal and also emit carbon, count as zero carbon in the emissions trading system, allowing others elsewhere to produce more carbon and overall more carbon emissions.

Nuclear Reactors for District Heating
How does nuclear fuel storage ability impact the reliability and versatility of nuclear power?

Rauli Partanen envisions the benefits of condensed nuclear fuel storage benefiting the reliability and versatility of nuclear power. The global fuel market is very stable and typically operates on 10 to 20 year contracts for production. Since heat is currently the biggest source of emissions in Finland, the country has been willing to consider nuclear as one of the solutions. A simple reactor could could produce 100 degree Celsius affordable heat for the heating network, which is currently being designed in China. Another option is to develop a combined nuclear heat and power plant which can produce one or both products in a flexible manner. Some concerns for a combined plant include the size of the pipeline that would be required to feed a large amount of hot water from the current nuclear plant to the city systems, as well as a lack of redundancy. Some concerns for small reactors include economics of locations for the reactor and how safety and evacuation zones might be affected, which the national regulator is currently considering.

Finnish Culture and Nuclear Energy
Does the Finnish culture lend itself towards a progressive stance on nuclear?

Rauli Partanen credits the high value of honesty in Finnish culture, as well as a drive for self-sufficiency, to the country’s progressive stance on nuclear energy. Energy supply is a big national topic in Finland, as they have been historically dependent on Russia for oil, gas, and coal. This drive for self-sufficiency and value for honesty, including a promise for reducing carbon emissions, encourages the Finnish people to follow up and investigate all energy options, including nuclear. Finland has had a continuous willingness to pursue nuclear energy, shown by consistent project proposals, during times when other developed countries had given up hope on the technology.

Future of Nuclear
Where can we find work that we’ve done and where do you see the future of nuclear going?

Rauli Partanen’s books, such as Climate Gamble, can be found on Google and Amazon in print or audiobook. His latest Finnish book, The Age of Energy, won the Science Book of the Year award in Finland and is coming out later in 2019. If the world can adapt the same optimistic attitude about decarbonizing and nuclear energy that Finland currently has, the possibilities are limitless. Partanen will continue to work towards integration of this technology through technical analysis and communication.

Qa1 01:20

Q: How did you become interested in nuclear?

A: Ville Tulkki started being interested in climate change while in high school and even considered himself anti-nuclear during his time at university. Tulkki studied engineering physics with the intent of pursuing the renewable energy industry. After learning the scientific facts, Tulkki determined that some of the information he had been taught and heard from leaders was false. He started a summer job in fusion research at a lab on campus and switched to Generation IV nuclear for his master’s program, which includes gas-cooled and molten salt reactors. This generation is supposed to be safer, more versatile, and more economical.

Qa2 07:47

Q: What work were you doing around Generation IV nuclear reactors?

A: Ville Tulkki first worked on a supercritical water nuclear reactor, in which water is pressurized to a point at which it doesn’t boil, but instead transitions from a liquid state to fluid state and is used in turbines to improve efficiency. He then started working on nuclear fuel safety for currently operating nuclear reactors. Tulkki joined VTT and started working on fuel behavior analysis, which looks at the state of the fuel in terms of characteristics such as thermoconductors, mechanical effects of changing temperatures, and stresses and strains on pellets and cladding.

Qa3 13:06

Q: What happens to fuel rods over time?

A: Ville Tulkki analyzes how the state of fuel rods change over time and how accidents could affect the fuel. These tests are modeled based on data from materials testing reactors. Tulkki is the Finnish technical delegate to Halden project, which is a fifty year old boiling water reactor in Norway. He is also a working group member on Jules Horowitz reactor in France which is a new materials testing reactor. This reactor is available for use by researchers worldwide and has very high capabilities. Tulkki is modeling the response to the pressure differential between the fuel rod and the cladding.

Qa4 21:25

Q: How did you get involved in small modular reactors (SMR’s)?

A: Ville Tulkki was asked to coordinate an EU proposal on licensing small modular reactors (SMR’s) and learned a lot about the technology during his research. Tulkki proposed some initial internal projects for SMR’s focused on gaining expertise that got privately funded, which leads to involvement in public projects and then, eventually, commercial projects. SMR’s currently being proposed are expensive, but have the possibility of more reliable production and construction. Some designs have been intentionally agile in the amount of electricity they can deliver to the grid, in order to adapt to many different purposes. Large nuclear plants can do some load following, but smaller reactors have even more capability for load following and at a quicker pace. Nuclear-powered icebreakers, such as used on some Russian ships, can ramp up extremely quickly.

Qa5 28:17

Q: What are some other things you look into with regards to SMR’s?

A: Ville Tulkki is researching small modular reactors (SMR’s) for heat use. Only a fraction of heat produced at large nuclear reactors can be used since it is created at such a large quantity. Smaller reactors create heat at a level that can actually be used by consumers, such as chemical production that use catalytic processes and drying pulp at paper mills. District heating is also a possible use of SMR’s. Tulkki’s high level studies analyzes why people should be interested in SMR’s, focusing on the self-sufficiency, low carbon footprint, and cost of electricity. After publishing a paper on the possibility of district heating through the use of SMR’s, Tulkki became highly sought after in Finland for his knowledge of the technology. In his role, Tulkki tries to bring the most factual information forward for the public to make their own decision and form their own opinions.

Qa6 36:09

Q: What’s next for you and what do you see coming down the line in the nuclear field?

A: Ville Tulkki is currently working on submitting proposals and funding applications for new projects around small modular reactors. Tulkki’s technical research has involved the future of district heating, which is currently serviced by traditional industries such as coal, biomass, and gas. Projects in the U.S., like NuScale, and the Chinese gas-cooled nuclear reactor are examples of new technologies that could be used for district heating.

Q1 01:12

Q: Where did you grow up?

A: Atte Harjanne grew up in the metropolitan area of Helsinki in Finland and attended Aalto University. Hard work and equality are highly valued in Finnish culture and the model of governance is adopted from the nation’s time as part of Sweden. Finland has brutal winters and short summers, but is especially prone to effects of climate change and the country is focused on preparedness as a whole.

Qa2 08:15

Q: What challenges did your generation face?

A: Atte Harjanne sees his generation as the first international generation with the frequency and privilege of traveling abroad. Economic security is also pronounced in Finland, especially the younger generation who experienced a depression in the 1990’s after the Soviet Union left the country. Harjanne was always interested in history, but found himself studying the natural sciences. His master’s program is in engineering, but Harjanne’s role is currently focused on societal science. After some radical politics in the 1960’s and 1970’s, universities have seen strong study body movements and students becoming involved in making a better university community. Harjanne was a member of the National Coalition Party, a moderate right leaning group, but did not see environmental issues prioritized which altered his political views.

Qa3 14:52

Q: What do Finnish politics look like overall?

A: Atte Harjanne is a member of the Green Party in Finland. The current biggest party in Finland is the Central Party, which is the old Agrarian Party, considered moderate right and typically conservative and is extremely popular outside big cities. National Coalition Party is the moderate right wing party popular in the metro areas that has liberal stances towards the market, but also some strong conservative views. The Social Democratic Party is the main moderate left party which consists of social liberals that support higher taxes and broader welfare. All the Finnish parties are committed to the idea of the welfare state and progressive taxation. The True Finns are the conservative right wing movement, but are not considered extremists. In Helsinki and other cities, the Green Party has a strong presence and a major portion of the party represents a focus on science and education. There are other smaller parties throughout Finland which don’t have seats in Parliament but have seats in civic office.

Qa4 23:21

Q: How did you see yourself taking on a major political role?

A: Atte Harjanne has worked in the background of the Green Party for many years and decided to run as a candidate to bring research and politics together. While science cannot produce exact answers to political issues, but Harjanne believes solutions should be based on the best available information. The Green Party considers themselves nuclear neutral and open to nuclear energy and other low carbon energy generation. Harjanne learned about power production and nuclear energy growing up in school, and became more pro-nuclear after he learned why people in the political atmosphere were opposed.

Qa5 29:36

Q: Do you see open minded people becoming pro-nuclear after learning the facts?

A: Atte Harjanne generally sees people become more open minded after learning the facts of nuclear power. In the political atmosphere, Harjanne saw that initially concerns were incorrectly linked to nuclear weapons, but eventually found out concerns were more focused on cost. Chernobyl happened when Harjanne was a child, but he does not associate the event with any type of nuclear scare, giving credit to his parents.

Qa6 33:25

Q: What type of climate research are you doing?

A: Atte Harjanne is a socioeconomic impact researcher focused on researching climate change adaptation costs and benefits and how climate risks are managed in different organizations. Harjanne looks at how different organizations perceive climate risk and how they plan to manage climate change. Mitigation policy research is usually completed by Finnish Environmental Center, and people like Harjanne just provide climate information. One current project of Harjanne’s is analyzing energy policy as it relates to renewable energy and how it enables lower prioritization of climate politics. He is also looking into the European Development of Climate Services and how there is information available, but not incentives for promoting climate change, such as a putting a price on carbon or establishing a carbon tax. The Finnish government is working towards an act forbidding the use of coal by 2029, but Harjanne is afraid that mandating a phase out may only provide an opportunity for other high carbon emission power. Vehicle emissions are also under consideration for regulation.

Qa7 40:19

Q: What is it like to participate in a debate with political and industry leaders around energy?

A: Atte Harjanne witnesses a difference in debate in private and public conversations. For example, in the end-of-coal act, private debates expose the risks and challenges of eliminating the industry, but in public, it is very highly supported. Harjanne sees many other countries preach renewables as image driven climate politics. Finland is looking at nuclear energy and other low carbon emission technology, like small modular reactors (SMR’s). He hopes to see other countries follow suit and pursue low carbon energy options. Helsinki has acknowledged that district heating is currently coming from coal, but also recognizes that the easy alternatives are not necessarily the best.

Qa1 01:35

Q: Tell me about your background.

A: Toni Hemminki grew up in a coastal village in Finland whose economy was formed around the paper mill industry. Hemminki studied environmental technology at the Lappeenranta University of Technology after serving his time in the Finnish military. During his time in school, Hemminki recognized that climate change cannot be solved through technology alone. Hemminki’s master’s thesis was spent at a steel factory completing life cycle analysis and carbon footprint calculations for the factory.

Qa2 07:08

Q: Were these life cycle analyses regulated or voluntary?

A: Toni Hemminki’s life cycle analyses completed at the steel factory were completely voluntary, as the companies believed there would be competitive advantages and benefits. During his fifteen years at the steel company, Hemminki rose from his role as a master’s thesis researcher to the head of strategy, technology, and energy and environmental sustainability. Energy efficiency was at the core of the company’s strategy, in order to maximize production of high strength steel and other specialty products. SSAB, a Swedish steel company, bought Finnish-based Rautaruukki, bringing two competitors together to combine strategy. Hemminki was the production planning head of the Rautaruukki side of the company and was in charge of energy procurement. The steel company consumed a large quantity of electricity and decided to invest in energy production, specifically interested in wind and nuclear. A group of Finnish businesses joined together to form a new nuclear company.

Qa3 14:06

Q: Did the steel company pursue nuclear power for price stability?

A: Rautaruukki, where Toni Hemminki served as production planning head, and other Finnish companies decided to invest in a new nuclear company in order to provide price stability and lucrative price levels. Even though the economic climate has changed, Hemminki believes in the feasibility and low price over a long lifetime of the nuclear plants. The fossil fuel energy industries support wind and solar power because of its intermittent capabilities, and anything else is a threat to their industry. Finland is losing energy capacity as old coal plants are shut down and new plants have not been built yet.

Qa4 20:09

Q: Who are the other parties involved in the creation of this new nuclear company?

A: While Toni Hemminki was not personally involved in the original discussions about the creation of a new nuclear company, Rautaruukki as a company, Outokumpu Stainless Steel and a regional electricity municipality decided to move forward with the investment. The stable price and carbon-free emissions of nuclear power were the two major factors in the decision to go nuclear. In Finland, and in most of Europe, there is emissions trading which requires permits to emit carbon dioxide. This creates an additional volatility effect on the electricity market, so both the market and procurement can be improved by eliminating carbon emissions. Fortum, the biggest electricity utility in Finland, which also owns assets across other countries, has two nuclear power plants in operation with plans for decommissioning. TVO also has two nuclear units in operation, with a third in production. In previous plants, there were many redesigns during the construction phase. Now, there is more regulation during design phase and plant management systems are developed even before the design. The modern nuclear industry has very strong safety, communication, and information sharing programs.

Qa5 28:11

Q: How did you come into the role as CEO of Fennovoima?

A: Toni Hemminki now serves as the CEO of Fennovoima, a nuclear company that was formed by a cooperation of multiple Finnish companies as an investment in energy production. Hemminki’s background in energy procurement brought many high level connections within the electricity industry to Fennovoima. These investments came at a time right after the recession when the overall economic growth had slowed down and nobody else was investing. Fennovoima is building a pressurized water nuclear reactor with Rosatom, a Russian supplier, in central Finland. Rosatom was the most competitive bid for this project, with Areva and Toshiba also submitting bids.

Qa6 37:29

Q: What’s the community’s reception of where you are going to build the site, at both the local and national level?

A: Toni Hemminki views Finnish people as very pragmatic with a need to be self-sufficient. This combination of values has resulted in many pro-nuclear people in the Finnish population, as well as open mindedness regarding new technology. The percentage of support is even greater in the community in which Fennovoima’s nuclear plant is being constructed, Pyhäjoki, as it brings jobs, community significance, and culture. The Finnish and Russian nations cooperate economically as neighbors, for example, supporting Russian nuclear suppliers, and gained more support from the public. The site preparation at Pyhäjoki has begun, including utility work and supporting infrastructure construction. Licensing for the nuclear plant is currently underway. Fennovoima brought a group of 150 designers to Helsinki to improve communication and cooperation throughout the design process.

Qa7 47:39

Q: What advice would you give to other companies that want to build nuclear plants?

A: Toni Hemminki encourages younger companies to reach out to other nuclear companies and seek out information already available about building nuclear plants. Questions about what is important in being successful in building and implementing plant design is valuable for all. There is a priority for safety in operating plants, and control rooms have to be very organized with detailed descriptions of instructions for different scenarios. Room for critical thinking is necessary in the control room and at the center of operations. Distinguishing different roles and responsibilities is vital to the success of an operating plant.

Q1: How did you get into physics at CERN?

A1: Michael Doser studied Physics at ETH Zurich, then later received his PhD in Physics at the University of Zurich. He was sent to CERN to work on an experiment looking for mesons, which is looking for what kind of states quarks and antiquarks can form. Doser hoped to find states consisting of only force carriers, gluons. These glueballs were hypothesized to exist by annihilating protons with antiprotons. PET scans, which are used to look for high metabolic rates such as tumors or cell growth, are positrons annihilating inside the body. Doser started off at CERN as a high energy physicist working with antimatter, using it to study what holds nuclei together.

Q2: What brought you into the physics field to begin with?

A2: Michael Doser was initially Interested in molecular biology and computer science, but in 1978, there were not many high profile computer science labs and not many people working in molecular biology. Doser started programming at ETH with punch cards, at which point, physics became more interesting than programming. Doser ended up in particle physics as a high energy physicist. One realization in the physics world at the time was that atoms of antimatter could be formed. Hydrogen has a single proton and single electron, which is the simplest normal atom. Atoms of antimatter could be used explain some of the universe’s unknowns, potentially by comparing the differences between atoms of matter and antimatter. There is no antimatter left from the Big Bang, even though every time a particle is produced, an antiparticle is also produced.

Q3: What are some of these differences in characteristics that you’re trying to test between matter and antimatter?

A3: For a particle physicist such as Michael Doser, the universe is simply made up of particles, which can be identified by four characteristics: mass, charge, lifetime, and magnetic moment. Mass could be mass of an electron or an antielectron, but is the same value. The charge of an electron is negatively charged and an antielectron is positively charge. At this time, the charge is thought to be equal but opposite. Unstable particles, such as a neutron removed from a nucleus, have a probability to decay within a certain amount of time.

Q4: What is magnetic moment?

A4: Michael Doser’s studies center around the interaction of particles and its characteristics, such as magnetic moment. Particles are like a compass needle that follow a magnetic field. The strength of the coupling between the particle and the external magnetic field is the magnetic moment. They either interact with a strong interaction, a week interaction, or a gravitational interaction. The particle has a coupling between each interaction. Mass is considered to be the coupling between a particle and gravitational interaction. The difference between matter and antimatter, if it exists, is thought to be affected by external fields. An atom of anti-Hydrogren, which is neutral, will not have the same sensitivity to external fields as the charged particles of antielectron or an antielectron independently. The direct measurement of the gravitational interaction between matter and antimatter has never been taken.

Q5: What other projects do you work on at CERN?

A5: Michael Doser’s main project at CERN is studying the gravitational interactions between matter and antimatter. He is involved in other development projects needed to measure this interaction, such as laser cooling negatively charged molecules. These negatively charged systems are needed to make very cold anti-Hydrogen atoms to measure gravity. Gravity is a very weak force, so atoms have to be moving very slowly and studied over a long time in order to give the systems time to be affected by gravity.

Q6: What is antimatter doing at the center of the galaxy?

A6: Michael Doser Antimatter annihilates the antielectrons and positrons with the electrons, allowing us to see the antimatter from a great distance. An antiparticle can only annihilate once with another particle and there is no amplification effect. The International Space Station has an antimatter spectrometer is one example of many experiments currently ongoing in space. A “cloud of positrons” has been observed around the Earth, but the hypothesized closest location of antimatter is around Jupiter. If radioactive decay can be advanced technically, there is a potential to develop more positrons. There is a challenge of how to keep the produced antiparticles together due to their charge, unless they are combined to create anti-Hydrogen.

Q7: What medical applications exist for antimatter?

A7: Michael Doser sees one future use of antimatter in medical applications. Physiological processes in the body can be visualized via positron emission tomography (PET) scans. A radioisotope is inserted into a sugar which is inserted into the bloodstream. Cells that have a high need of energy are going to absorb the sugar. The radioisotope stays in that cell, decays at some point, and produces a positron. The positron annihilates with the closest electron and produces two photons, gamma rays, which can be detected outside the body. The two gamma rays emitted simultaneously allow the detectors to locate the source. The touchpad was invented at CERN in the 1970’s to control accelerators, which eventually was re-invented for the general population, but was not initially commercialized.

Q8: What is the application of a spallation source?

A8: Michael Doser’s work with anitmattter follows that of Carlo Rubbia in the late 1900’s. The spallation source was proposed by Carlo Rubbia, Nobel Prize winner for discover W and Z bosons by building an accelerator that collides protons and antiprotons. This “poor man’s collider” led to development of high energy physics. His next proposal was to use accelerators to drive the production of neutrons as protons are collided with a block in an accelerator, which generates lots of thermal neutrons. Neutrons create further neutrons through spallation and each fragmentation creates energy. Neutrons can also be used to fragment radioisotopes and transform them from long-lived radioisotopes into something shorter lived. By shortening the lifetime, the instantaneous release of energy is increased.

Q9: What else do you have to share about your experience with high energy physics?

A9: Michael Doser anticipates future applications of antimatter in medical treatment. Antimatter can also be used to treat tumors, which is traditionally treated with gamma rays. Gamma rays have a constant probability of being absorbed and deposits the same amount of energy where it stops. Enough energy has to be deposited inside the tumor to destroy the cells. This requires gamma ray therapy from multiple directions to attempt to minimize the impact on healthy cells. One alternative is proton therapy, or a carbon ion can be used in place of protons in proton therapy, but it is expensive to build the accelerators to strip the carbon atoms to obtain the carbon ion. Instead of protons, antiprotons could also be used for therapy. On their way in, they act as protons, slowing down gently and deposit all the remaining kinetic energy in the final 1 mm of movement. The antiprotons then annihilate and takes out several cells around it, maximizing the impact. Initial experiments show that antimatter therapy as the potential to be four times as effective as proton therapy, but more research is needed to duplicate real life conditions.

Q10: In normal proton therapy, how does a proton impact a cell?

A10: Michael Doser is currently studying the possibilities for antimatter in different applications. When a proton impacts a cell in proton therapy, it acts as a cannonball shot through sensitive, complex molecules causing single strand breaks in the DNA, and potentially double strand breaks. Cells can repair single strand breaks, but gives up once there are multiple double strand breaks and commits cell suicide. The development of antiproton production infrastructure is very expensive, considering the construction cost of the accelerator, building, and gantry used to move the beams in the therapy process. There are three types, sometimes called “flavors”, of standard neutrinos: electron neutrino, muon neutrino, and tau neutrino, plus their antimatter counterparts. Neutrinos oscillate from one “flavor” of neutrino to another, as do the antineutrinos. Fermilab is involved in an experiment call DUNE which will try to measure the oscillations for neutrinos and antineutrinos to identify if there are any differences in oscillations.

Q1: What brought you into the nuclear reactor industry?

A1: Giovanni Porcellana decided to study nuclear engineering in high school to contribute to the future of clean energy. Porcellana pursued nuclear engineering at the Politecnico University of Turin in Italy and also at the Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm, Sweden. Porcellana became interested in fast neutron reactors during a class at university, which are able to convert nuclear waste into energy. His first job was at Cadarache in France working on ASTRID, a sodium cooled fast reactor. Porcellana’s master thesis was based around implementing a computing method for studying the behavior of the physics inside nuclear reactors.

Q2: Where did you go after your thesis?

A2: After Giovanni Porcellana completed his master’s thesis, he returned to Cadarache in France working for a private company focused on instrumentation on sodium cooled reactors. The sensors are placed at hotspots inside the reactors to measure temperature, pressure, the flow of the cooling system, and the neutron flux. In order to burn the waste into fuel, a high neutron flux is required, which cannot happen in the presence of water. Liquid metal cooling is an alternative to water cooling that can maintain the high speed and high energy. During the design phase for the reactor, Porcellana decided which type of instrumentation would be best suited for inside the reactor. After this assignment, Porcellana decided to return to Turin, Italy, and received an offer to build and design particle accelerators for chemotherapy at CERN.

Q3: How do we get individual protons?

A3: Giovanni Porcellana designed and built particle accelerators for chemotherapy at CERN, which shoot protons at cancer cells. Protons come from gaseous hydrogen, which is made up of protons and electrons, so when the gas is put inside an electric field during a process called ionization, the protons and electrons are separated. These protons are shot with particle accelerators, and in the case of cancer treatment, are bullet-like and can target a specific part of the body and stop at a certain distance. A center near Milan, Italy, called CNAO treats patient with these types of particle accelerators. After this project, Porcellana decided to join CERN in a broader sense, figuring out how technology developed at CERN can be used commercially.

Q4: Tell us about the process of making particle accelerator technology available commercially.

A4: Giovanni Porcellana’s current role involves having knowledge of what technologies exist or are being developed at CERN, having market awareness of what companies need to be successful, and bridging these worlds together. One example of CERN technology developed commercially is the world wide web, or the internet. The initial purpose of the internet was to share data more easily among different operating systems at the Center. Another example of the technology transfer is the personal dosimeter. CERN had to develop a dosimeter that would function among high magnetic fields, which was not available in commercial dosimeters at the time. CERN also developed a passive dosimeter that can detect radon and funded a start-up company to commercialize, instead of contacting existing companies to try to license the technology.

Q5: What kind of projects are currently happening at CERN?

A5: Giovanni Porcellana has a high visibility of different projects happening at CERN; one current project at CERN is MEDICIS, which uses the CERN infrastructure to produce new radioisotopes for medical imaging and treatment. These isotopes are more difficult to produce in normal facilities. In the future, isotopes may be used for diagnostics and therapy at the same time, allowing real time feedback to see the treatment is working.

Q6: How do the isotopes find tumors in imaging or treatment?

A6: Giovanni Porcellana sees the same equipment and detectors used to study both medicine and high energy physics. For imaging, a radioactive substance is connected with a molecule of glucose and injected into the bloodstream. Tumors are high consumers of sugar, so the isotopes become more concentrated at the location of the tumors. Isotopes can also be used to diagnose Alzheimer’s, based on the activity level of the brain. The study of radioactivity and matter have always been linked together in science and always been applied for medical purposes.

Q7: How are gamma rays transferred into an image?

A7: As a CERN technology expert, Giovanni Porcellana has worked with transferring gamma rays into an image. The equipment converts whatever happens with the particles or rays into an electric signal to be analyzed. PET scanners use some of the same technology as used in calorimeters in high energy physics. Scintillating crystals are physical instruments that transform the energy coming from a particle or a wave into light into a signal that can be collected by sensors and studied and an image can be computed from it. The same principle is used in the particle accelerator, but may use different crystals, electronics, and converter, but the same principles of detection are used. This same technology can be used for cultural heritage, and many museums, such as the Louvre, have particle accelerators and use them to date materials, identify its geographic origin, and verify authenticity. One project in development at CERN is a transportable particle accelerator that can be used for cultural and artistic purposes, such as buildings.

Q8: What has been your experience working in the multinational community at CERN?

A8: More than 100 nationalities are currently represented at CERN, including Giovanni Porcellana’s home country of Italy. CERN was originally developed to bring science back to Europe after World War II, with a vision of building an engine for peace. One of the first mottos at CERN was “Science for peace.” Nations that may not recognize each other politically work together at CERN for the higher goal of scientific development.